<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #1595</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
Date:	12/28/99 3:28:20 PM Pacific Standard Time<BR>
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Traveller-digest     Tuesday, December 28 1999     Volume 1999 : Number 1595<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: T<N> Chow<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1594<BR>
Re: in jokes<BR>
Re: Drawing Program - longish<BR>
Re: Purina etc.<BR>
Re: Purina etc.<BR>
Re: Purina, etc.<BR>
Re: Purina, etc.<BR>
Re: Re Image Formats<BR>
Re: Keyboard Kills Since 20 Oct 99<BR>
Re: Drawing Program<BR>
Re: Ethnic confusion<BR>
Re: Ethnic confusion<BR>
Re: T<N> Chow<BR>
Re: Re Heraldry<BR>
Chow chow chow<BR>
Re: Keyboard Kills Since 20 Oct 99<BR>
RE: Purina, etc.<BR>
Re: random acts of sitcom<BR>
Vargr and Smelly Food...<BR>
Re: Ethnic confusion<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 17:56:18 EST<BR>
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: T<N> Chow<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 99-12-28 16:04:30 EST, you write:<BR>
<BR>
<< the end of the animated television special will show a<BR>
 dog trying to tell everyone, "puppy chow is puppies!"<BR>
  >><BR>
<BR>
I won't even bring up baby food. Or Girl Scout sookies. <BR>
<BR>
LKW<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 18:05:54 EST<BR>
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1594<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 99-12-28 17:52:48 EST, you write:<BR>
<BR>
<< Subject: Chow-chow-chow back on topic!<BR>
 > Another disgusting thought... you know, if you have ever had both cats<BR>
 > and dogs at the same time, that some dogs will eat cat sh*t...  I wonder<BR>
 > if Vargr will eat that.  Do they consider it a delicacy?  Can you imagine<BR>
 > being a Free Trader and taking a "load" of this substance to a Vargr<BR>
 > world?   Can you imagine being at a diplomatic event and finding out WHAT<BR>
 > that stuff on the party tray actually is?<BR>
 > >><BR>
<BR>
Isn't there some kind of gourmet coffee where the bean has to pass through <BR>
the digestive tract of a small mammal?<BR>
<BR>
LKW<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 14:21:41 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: in jokes<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>> How about the first "astronauts" being a Mr. Gordon,<BR>
>> nicknamed "Flash".<BR>
>> In a ship built by Dr. Zarkov, and accompanied by<BR>
>> both Zarkov and Dale<BR>
>> Arden. :-)<BR>
><BR>
> Or even better, the first people on the moon are a<BR>
> crazy old professor and a couple teenage boys, who are<BR>
> very distressed to find the nazis got there first<BR>
> (they're going to launch nukes from the moon to<BR>
> conquer the earth, but the lads and the prof take care<BR>
> of them, bringing one back to earth for trial) Now<BR>
> THAT was space opera!<BR>
<BR>
"Uncle Don" was far from "crazy". <BR>
<BR>
And that future ties in fairly well with a few other Heinlein stories.<BR>
"Space Cadet" for example. Even if you delete the Martians and<BR>
Venusians, there's still a lot of good background material.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 14:25:33 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Drawing Program - longish<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> On Mon, 27 Dec 1999, Jory Earl wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>> Yes, but you see, you (and the others most likely) have had formal training<BR>
>> on computers.  I have had none at all.  I had to learn on my own, so even<BR>
>> this day I don't know much.  I know BASIC good but its a dead language.  I<BR>
>> have Visual Basic 4.0 but it makes no sense to me at all when I try to<BR>
>> program in it.<BR>
><BR>
> BASIC a dead language??? HAHA, not bloody _likely_, cobber! VBasic is<BR>
> still going strong, and there is a really nice implementation on the Mac<BR>
> called RealBasic.<BR>
<BR>
And there's PowerBasic for the PC (a descendant of TurboBasic). Their<BR>
web site (www.powerbasic.com) also has a shareware FirstBasic that you<BR>
can download. It costs something like $20-25 to register, and all that<BR>
registration gets you is a disk, and a command-line version of the<BR>
compiler (FBC) to go with the interactive Version (FB). Oh yeah, the<BR>
money you pay for FB counts towards the purchase of PowerBasic.<BR>
<BR>
So far, I'm doing just fine with FB, as I don't have a lot of need for<BR>
the extras in PB. Main reason I registered was to get FBC, so my make<BR>
files would run more smoothly. :-)<BR>
<BR>
> C++ is not really a 'higher level language' (an old joke definition of C<BR>
> is: 'a language with all the speed and power of assembler, with all the<BR>
> ease of use and readability of assembler.' ;-), it's just that there are<BR>
> better _compilers_ for C and C++.<BR>
<BR>
If you think C is bad, grab one of the freeware/shareware APL<BR>
interpreters from the web. :-)<BR>
<BR>
> VisBasic started to enforce object orientation (even though they didn't<BR>
> call it that) which is what C++ trieds to put onto C and other languages<BR>
> have more or less successfully employed as well (I even saw an OO version<BR>
> of _COBAL_ a while back!).<BR>
<BR>
I'm still trying to figure out how to *apply* my theoretical knowledge<BR>
of OO to actual programs. With no success. I can't figure out where to<BR>
*start*. <BR>
<BR>
Anybody know of a good book on OO prgramming in Turbo Pascal?<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 14:33:09 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Purina etc.<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>> From: Matthew Bond [mailto:mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk]<BR>
>> <BR>
>> Well, from what I understand, and I may well be wrong, aren't MRE's in<BR>
>> theory nutritionally balanced and edible direct from the <BR>
>> container without<BR>
>> cooking.  So the US Army already has Human Chow... (probably <BR>
>> sub-contacts to<BR>
>> Purina... <g>)<BR>
><BR>
> The US govt has used MREs as humanitarian supplies to various parts of the<BR>
> world - with various amounts of success.<BR>
><BR>
> In order for it to be Purina * Chow, it has to be mostly homogenous,<BR>
> preferably come in large bags in bulk, able to be stored for a long time,<BR>
> and have the taste and consistency of gravel.<BR>
<BR>
Not true. The stuff has to taste halfway decent or the critters won't<BR>
eat it. But that doesn't mean it can't be *bland*.<BR>
<BR>
> MREs, despite rumors to the contrary, actually do have differentiated<BR>
> ingredients.  Kinda.<BR>
<BR>
You ever try the stuff they *used* to issue? The Air Force version was<BR>
"In flight meal packs". Essentially, the same cans as in C-rats, but<BR>
with a slightly different accessory pack. No cigarrettes, no TP. <BR>
<BR>
I used to buy them back when I was in Boy Scouts. I'd take *one* along<BR>
to eat the first night of a camping trip, since after dragging<BR>
everything out of the truck and setting up camp, I didn't feel much<BR>
like doing a lot of cooking. Tossing the "main course" can into a<BR>
canteen cup full of water and putting it on the fire to boil for a<BR>
while was just about right. <BR>
<BR>
Heck, after a while, the whole patrol was doing the same. We did "real"<BR>
cooking for the rest of the trip, but for that first night, the meal<BR>
packs were just fine. <BR>
<BR>
Heck, the various "cakes" in the dessert can were mostly pretty good.<BR>
The main course usually *tasted* ok, even if the texture was often a<BR>
bit weird.<BR>
<BR>
I've had MREs a few times. They are ok. Nothing to rave over, but ok. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 14:41:03 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Purina etc.<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> On Tue, 28 Dec 1999 02:38:21 PST, shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard<BR>
> Erickson) wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>>In mail you write:<BR>
>><BR>
>>>>>Purina Mills makes hundreds of types of Purina * Chow, mainly for zoos, <BR>
>>> etc.<BR>
>>>><BR>
>>>>Kirsten and I have been joking for years about needing to buy Teddy Bear<BR>
>>>>Chow before the angry mob of teddy bears goes beserk.<BR>
>><BR>
>>>  They also make Purina Bachelor Chow, but they CALL it Macaroni & <BR>
> Cheese...<BR>
>><BR>
>>Nope. Doesn't count. Mac & cheese requires *cooking*. "People chow" has<BR>
>>to be edible direct from the shipping container.<BR>
>><BR>
>>It also has to be suitable as a long term diet (ie you have to be able<BR>
>>to live on "people chow" and watere *indefinitely* without coming down<BR>
>>with deficiency diseases or other nutriotion related disorders).<BR>
>><BR>
>>I'm certain that some world *have* something like this, and use it for<BR>
>>feeding prisoners and/or welfare clients.<BR>
><BR>
> People Chow is PEOPLE!!!!<BR>
<BR>
No, that's Soylent Green....<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 14:42:40 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Purina, etc.<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>> -----Original Message-----<BR>
>> From: shadow@krypton.rain.com [mailto:shadow@krypton.rain.com]<BR>
>> Some of us have joked about making a special order for "Purina Human<BR>
>> Chow" and putting some in the Hospitality Suite at cons. :-)<BR>
><BR>
> There is an 'advertisement' in a supplement for the old FASA Star Trek RPG<BR>
> where it lists:<BR>
><BR>
> Andorian Chow<BR>
> Vulcan Chow<BR>
> Terran Chow<BR>
> and<BR>
> Terran Chow with Cheese<BR>
><BR>
> The last two (along with Vargr Chow) have actually appeared in my Traveller<BR>
> campaign.  You always wanted to know what those really cheap food packs<BR>
> tasted like...<BR>
<BR>
I used to be on a *tight* budget. I was living on rice, cheap frozen<BR>
veggies, and TVP (textured vegetable protein). The "chunk" TVP came in<BR>
three flavors, and the chunks were 1-2 cm on a side. The were supposed<BR>
to be soaked in water or else cooked slowly with some extra water. But<BR>
they could be eaten dry. <BR>
<BR>
The consistency varied. The "chicken" flavor was about the color of<BR>
white chicken meat, and fairly hard. The Ham flavor was a darkish red,<BR>
and crunched nicely. The beef flavor was dark brown and way too hard to<BR>
chew on without having been soaked a bit.<BR>
<BR>
I did play "people chow" games with them a few times. Alas, the store<BR>
that had them in the "bulk foods" section went out of business years<BR>
ago, and I haven't tracked down a new source.<BR>
<BR>
> Purina Monkey Chow is readily edible by humans.<BR>
<BR>
What's it *taste* like?<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 14:49:09 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Purina, etc.<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>>From: Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com><BR>
><BR>
>>Chequey of three, gules and argent, a slug passant <BR>
>>sable.<BR>
><BR>
> Doesn't it run into the color on color problem or is<BR>
> sable not a color?  <BR>
<BR>
Sable is a *fur*. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 14:50:32 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Re Image Formats<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>>They also have the ability to "rasterize" an image for "quicker"<BR>
>>display. Basicly, it's an interlace option. Every 8th(?) line is<BR>
>>displayed. Then the "4th" lines "halfway" between them. Then the<BR>
>>"second" lines, and finally the last pass fills in the remaining lines.<BR>
><BR>
> I'm sure you can interlace JPEGs these days. At least, I'm pretty sure Corel<BR>
> 8 has an option on the save window.<BR>
<BR>
Given the way JPEG compression works, it'd either be really easy or<BR>
really hard. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 14:53:58 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Keyboard Kills Since 20 Oct 99<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>>Checking my archives (nearly 7,000 posts since 20 Oct 99), I find the<BR>
>>following information concerning TML keyboard kills (listd as:  Date,<BR>
>>Victim, Killer):<BR>
><BR>
> Wow. If you have that much spare time, care to help me mark dissection<BR>
> labs? :-)<BR>
<BR>
I assume these are "student dissection labs"?<BR>
<BR>
Whether or not I'd help would depend on how the above is parsed. If<BR>
it's student's *doing* the dissection, thanks, but no thanks. If it's<BR>
students *being* dissected, then that might be interesting. (I'm sure<BR>
that *anyone* who has ever taught *anything* can think of a student or<BR>
two they'd like to see on the dissection table... :-)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 14:57:49 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Drawing Program<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> ObTrav...the next time your PC's plant that pinhead-sized AV bug on<BR>
> someone, remember that a) there's a hard limit to the number of pixels you<BR>
> can have at your disposal, (how many pixels _can_ dance on the head of a<BR>
> pin?) and b) a harder limit to the amount of data that little thing can<BR>
> transmit.<BR>
><BR>
> Show them a horribly pixellated mpeg with a ton of artifacts and tell 'em<BR>
> this is the results of their surveillance.<BR>
<BR>
For *years* I wanted to be able to *show* people why I screamed in<BR>
outrage every time a TV show zoomed in on small details in an image<BR>
*recorded* from a typical, *cheap* surveilance camera. <BR>
<BR>
It's only recently that I've had the "technology". And it was *so* nice<BR>
to be able to explain to someone by taking a 640x240 GIF image and<BR>
"zooming" it to to show the problem.<BR>
<BR>
Enhancement can eliminate artifacts, but it *can't* generate info that<BR>
isn't there in the first place.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 15:01:42 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Ethnic confusion<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> On Tue, 28 Dec 1999, Robert Prior wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>> >Also, keep in mind that after 2-3 *million* years of (genetic)<BR>
>> >seperation, it's thought that humans and chimps may be interfertile.<BR>
>> >Nobody's had the guts to try it, given the ethical and moral dilemmas<BR>
>> >posed.<BR>
>> <BR>
> It would certainly be less remarkable than the fact that cats and skunks<BR>
> or horses and donkeys can sometimes produce offspring.  I think that not<BR>
> trying it is a matter not of guts but of taste.  Who would want to have<BR>
> sex with a chimp?<BR>
<BR>
The experimenters would be doing it in vitro, not in vivo. Given the<BR>
strength of a chimp, you'd be taking your life in your hands to try<BR>
having sex with one.<BR>
<BR>
>> As to trying to breed chimps and humans, I'm kinda surprised that no one's<BR>
>> tried an in vitro fertilization, just to see what happens, if we really are<BR>
>> that close. Can you give me a reference for that?  (All my sources, which<BR>
>> admittedly aren't extensive, assume separate species with no <BR>
> interbreeding.)<BR>
<BR>
It's in numerous books and articles. And it's the moral/ethical<BR>
dilemmas that are why no one has tried it in vitro. You'd have to deal<BR>
with questions such as "is this to be treated like a fertilized human<BR>
egg? Or as just another animal experiment?" And if you implanted the<BR>
egg and let the pregancy go to term, are you going to use a human or<BR>
chimp host? Either way, the ethics get sticky. And if you get a viable<BR>
*birth*, things *really* get sticky.<BR>
<BR>
Also, another reason for not doing this may be that conciously or<BR>
unconsciously, the researchers are *afraid* of the answers they might<BR>
get. <BR>
<BR>
For example, if they get a successful chimp/human hybrid *at all*, that<BR>
calls treatment of chimps (and gorillas since they are only<BR>
fractionally less related to us than chimps are) into question.<BR>
<BR>
If the hybrid is capable of producing viable offspring (with humans,<BR>
chimps, or other hybrids) then the fat is *really* in the fire. Because<BR>
that would essentially mean that Genus Pan And Genus Homo *aren't*<BR>
seperate species. And I'd bet you a cookie it'd take no more than a<BR>
month after word got out for PETA or some other rights group to file<BR>
suit on the grounds that chimps are *human* and every facilty holding<BR>
them is guilty of crimes from kidnapping on up. <BR>
<BR>
If the hybrid proves to be able to *speak*, then it gets even worse.<BR>
Especially if he or she is of anything *approaching* "normal<BR>
intelligence". <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 15:14:40 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Ethnic confusion<BR>
<BR>
In mail, traveller@lists.imagiconline.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
> Leonard Erickson writes:<BR>
><BR>
>>Also, keep in mind that after 2-3 *million* years of (genetic) seperation,<BR>
>>it's thought that humans and chimps may be interfertile. <BR>
><BR>
> Enough to produce fertile offspring? You'd have to show me a <BR>
> second-generation _Homo chimp_ to convince me of that.<BR>
<BR>
Agreed, that's *really* unlikely. But even getting sterile "mules"<BR>
would be enough to argue for merging the Homo and Pan genuses. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 15:15:17 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: Re: T<N> Chow<BR>
<BR>
On Tue, 28 Dec 1999 GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> In a message dated 99-12-28 16:04:30 EST, you write:<BR>
> <BR>
> << the end of the animated television special will show a<BR>
>  dog trying to tell everyone, "puppy chow is puppies!">><BR>
> <BR>
> I won't even bring up baby food. <BR>
<BR>
No, the K'Kree do enough of that.<BR>
<BR>
> Or Girl Scout cookies. <BR>
> <BR>
You don't have to; Wednesday Addams already did.<BR>
<BR>
"Is your lemonade made with real lemons?"<BR>
<BR>
"Are your cookies made with real Girl Scouts?"<BR>
<BR>
There's also the infamous line about olive oil, cod liver oil, corn oil,<BR>
peanut oil and baby oil.<BR>
<BR>
Kiri  =)<BR>
<BR>
******************************************************************************<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan					 93!  Thou Art God <BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>
Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 18:16:08 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Re Heraldry<BR>
<BR>
From: William F. Hostman <aramis@gci.net><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Ob Trav: How many of you assume some form of heraldry in the 3I?<BR>
>Is it standardized? How high a rank before one is awarded a<BR>
>device?<BR>
<BR>
In my Traveller universe yes, there is something that is sort of like<BR>
heraldry, but no it is not standardized. Its more an outgrowth of<BR>
advertising graphic design than anything else, think Coca-Cola, GE and IBM.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 15:18:09 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: Chow chow chow<BR>
<BR>
On Tue, 28 Dec 1999 GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> In a message dated 99-12-28 17:52:48 EST, you write:<BR>
> <BR>
> << Subject: Chow-chow-chow back on topic!<BR>
>  > Another disgusting thought... you know, if you have ever had both cats<BR>
>  > and dogs at the same time, that some dogs will eat cat sh*t...  I wonder<BR>
>  > if Vargr will eat that.  Do they consider it a delicacy?  Can you imagine<BR>
>  > being a Free Trader and taking a "load" of this substance to a Vargr<BR>
>  > world?   Can you imagine being at a diplomatic event and finding out WHAT<BR>
>  > that stuff on the party tray actually is?>><BR>
> <BR>
> Isn't there some kind of gourmet coffee where the bean has to pass through <BR>
> the digestive tract of a small mammal?<BR>
> <BR>
I had never heard of that.  I hope I haven't been drinking it.  (Kiri chan<BR>
spends too much money on fancy coffee.)<BR>
<BR>
I would also imagine that such a thing would be sterilized (I hope).<BR>
<BR>
I was actually wondering if Vargr would breed and/or raise cats to produce<BR>
the best tasting "stuff".  Ew!  I must stop this now!<BR>
<BR>
Kiri  =)<BR>
<BR>
******************************************************************************<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>
Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 15:23:07 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Keyboard Kills Since 20 Oct 99<BR>
<BR>
On Tue, 28 Dec 1999, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> In mail you write:<BR>
> <BR>
> > Wow. If you have that much spare time, care to help me mark dissection<BR>
> > labs? :-)<BR>
> <BR>
> I assume these are "student dissection labs"?<BR>
> <BR>
> Whether or not I'd help would depend on how the above is parsed. If<BR>
> it's students *doing* the dissection, thanks, but no thanks. If it's<BR>
> students *being* dissected, then that might be interesting. (I'm sure<BR>
> that *anyone* who has ever taught *anything* can think of a student or<BR>
> two they'd like to see on the dissection table... :-)<BR>
> <BR>
There's a prof here that only I get along with and I know what they say<BR>
about HIM.<BR>
<BR>
(I never wanted to dissect any of my students.  I did, however, have nasty<BR>
thoughts about the head of the department.  The only student I've ever<BR>
wanted to cut on was the one who suggested that I should give him an A in<BR>
return for his "services".  I don't know what was more insulting, the<BR>
supposition that I could be bought, the supposition that I wanted his<BR>
services, or the supposition that I would be desperate enough to exchange<BR>
grades for sex.  But there was only one part of his anatomy that I felt<BR>
like dissecting.)<BR>
<BR>
Kiri<BR>
******************************************************************************<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>
Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 17:00:46 -0600<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: RE: Purina, etc.<BR>
<BR>
On 12/28/99 at 12:44 PM,  "Moody, Danny M." <DMoody@bridge.com> said:<BR>
<BR>
>> > Purina Monkey Chow is readily edible by humans.<BR>
<BR>
>> Yeah, but would anyone ever willingly eat it TWICE?<BR>
<BR>
>It isn't too bad.  It tastes a bit like very, very dry granola.  Mind<BR>
>you, one wouldn't *want* to attempt to survive on it, but with a supply<BR>
>of clean water, I believe one could.<BR>
<BR>
Hum, I would think you might want to hydrate it in a bit of that water.<BR>
<BR>
IMTU, the standard ration is called an Instaheat.  It is basically<BR>
an MRE with built in heating and cooling, pull the tab and it heats<BR>
your entre and cools your desert, or vice versa.  Some are good,<BR>
some are passable, some you fost off on the unsuspecting, but that's<BR>
a matter of taste.  <g> OTHO, it *does* make sense to have a bulk<BR>
survival ration...humani chow, if you will.  My players will thank<BR>
you. <g><BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 17:09:16 -0600<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: random acts of sitcom<BR>
<BR>
On 12/28/99 at 03:37 PM,  "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net> said:<BR>
<BR>
>> I knew what a ford was, but if you asked me what the Ford in stream<BR>
>>was I might answer differently. And listen, I've hiked lots, read lots of<BR>
>> fantasy (looked at maps a dallas) and I still don't know what a knoll<BR>
>>is.<BR>
<BR>
It's where you find the gazebo...or the third gunman.<BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 15:25:36 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Mark Cook <markc@peak.org><BR>
Subject: Vargr and Smelly Food...<BR>
<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com> writes:<BR>
<BR>
> And Vargr probably love smelly things.  I wonder what Vargr think of<BR>
> limburger cheese.<BR>
<BR>
Varger don't eat Limburger Cheese, they *ROLL* in it! :^)<BR>
<BR>
        - Mark C.<BR>
<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
 mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com<BR>
 7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com<BR>
 Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818      <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 15:27:41 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Ethnic confusion<BR>
<BR>
On Tue, 28 Dec 1999, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Kiri wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> > On Tue, 28 Dec 1999, Robert Prior wrote:<BR>
> ><BR>
> >> >Also, keep in mind that after 2-3 *million* years of (genetic)<BR>
> >> >seperation, it's thought that humans and chimps may be interfertile.<BR>
> >> >Nobody's had the guts to try it, given the ethical and moral dilemmas<BR>
> >> >posed.<BR>
> >> <BR>
> > It would certainly be less remarkable than the fact that cats and skunks<BR>
> > or horses and donkeys can sometimes produce offspring.  I think that not<BR>
> > trying it is a matter not of guts but of taste.  Who would want to have<BR>
> > sex with a chimp?<BR>
> <BR>
> The experimenters would be doing it in vitro, not in vivo. Given the<BR>
> strength of a chimp, you'd be taking your life in your hands to try<BR>
> having sex with one.<BR>
> <BR>
A male human might be in danger from a female chimp.  I wonder if a male<BR>
chimp would respond to a female human.  Not that any female human I can<BR>
think of would want to, but then again there is some really weird porn out<BR>
there.  I would think if the scent were right and she presented herself a<BR>
male chimp might go after a female human.<BR>
<BR>
> >> As to trying to breed chimps and humans, I'm kinda surprised that no one's<BR>
> >> tried an in vitro fertilization, just to see what happens, if we really are<BR>
> >> that close. Can you give me a reference for that?  (All my sources, which<BR>
> >> admittedly aren't extensive, assume separate species with no <BR>
> > interbreeding.)<BR>
> <BR>
> It's in numerous books and articles. And it's the moral/ethical<BR>
> dilemmas that are why no one has tried it in vitro. You'd have to deal<BR>
> with questions such as "is this to be treated like a fertilized human<BR>
> egg? Or as just another animal experiment?" And if you implanted the<BR>
> egg and let the pregancy go to term, are you going to use a human or<BR>
> chimp host? Either way, the ethics get sticky. And if you get a viable<BR>
> *birth*, things *really* get sticky.<BR>
> <BR>
Exactly.<BR>
<BR>
> Also, another reason for not doing this may be that conciously or<BR>
> unconsciously, the researchers are *afraid* of the answers they might<BR>
> get. <BR>
> <BR>
Well who wouldn't be?<BR>
<BR>
> For example, if they get a successful chimp/human hybrid *at all*, that<BR>
> calls treatment of chimps (and gorillas since they are only<BR>
> fractionally less related to us than chimps are) into question.<BR>
> <BR>
> If the hybrid is capable of producing viable offspring (with humans,<BR>
> chimps, or other hybrids) then the fat is *really* in the fire. Because<BR>
> that would essentially mean that Genus Pan And Genus Homo *aren't*<BR>
> seperate species. And I'd bet you a cookie it'd take no more than a<BR>
> month after word got out for PETA or some other rights group to file<BR>
> suit on the grounds that chimps are *human* and every facilty holding<BR>
> them is guilty of crimes from kidnapping on up. <BR>
> <BR>
Especially since chimps, while lacking the ability to speak, can be<BR>
trained to be quite fluent in sign language.<BR>
<BR>
> If the hybrid proves to be able to *speak*, then it gets even worse.<BR>
> Especially if he or she is of anything *approaching* "normal<BR>
> intelligence". <BR>
> <BR>
As I said above, the hybrid might not be able to speak out loud, but would<BR>
almost certainly be able to do sign language.  And yes, that's a huge can<BR>
of Caenorhabditis.<BR>
<BR>
Kiri<BR>
<BR>
******************************************************************************<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>
Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1595<BR>
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